The
discussion began on the topic of eye candy. Someone argued that Japanese Anime
should be incorporated to make childrens software more appealing. Another pointed
out that KidPix isnt really easier for kids than its predecessors (e.g. MacPaint)
but was innovative in its addition of eye candy (and ear candy as well). And the success
of KidPix is probably due to this.
Someone
claimed that fun should be primary. Stealth learning should be the goal. Carmen San Diego
is a good example of this. Fun first but the more you know the better you do. Someone else
brought the question of whether hiding the learning is analogous to chocolate broccoli
where the content is good for you but doesnt taste good so you
cover it with fun (i.e. chocolate).
Someone
argued that educational content is no longer compelling by itself. Twelve years ago just
being on the computer was exciting. Now educational software has to compete with lots of
other software. Multi-player games work and should motivate kids whether by sharing the
same computer or console or by playing over a network.
Someone
pointed out that web software is different. Math Mayhem was given as an example. It is a
math trivia speed game. You have 60 seconds to get a better score than others
playing the same game. A child can be the best scorer in the world for a few minutes until
someone else comes along and scores better.
Another
person mentioned Cybiko (a kid-oriented PDA and communicator) and how it has very many
low-tech basic games that are very appealing. Communication is very important.
Someone
else asked why educational titles arent being developed for the GameBoy since it is
clearly so successful. Technically a good idea but the business model gets in the way.
Someone
pointed out there are lots of forces interacting here. Pokeman has a big marketing
machine behind it. Kids are savvy. They are attracted to good character and story
even if it is only a Popsicle stick with two eyes (from Nickelodeon). There are lots of
conflicting forces among them that parents go for titles with licensed characters.
Kids
are very quick to pick up on how software works. Software should support kids creativity.
Someone
asked if assessment within a product is still important. Others answered that it is
marketing that wants to put it on the box but it doesnt need to be good or even
work. One popular unnamed product had a huge bug in its assessment code and yet there was
not a single report of this to tech support. Another said that it was an important focus
of Reader Rabbit but the assessment component is much simpler now.
Another
pointed out that assessment only measures what is easy to measure (and misses out on lots
of important learning). Another claimed that parents dont use the assessment
functionality but it is important to educators. Another talked about products that come
out in two versions where the school version has extras such as assessment tools.
Another
said that designers were strongly constrained by the need to match the state frameworks.
This is a strong constraint for software sold to schools.
Someone
mentioned Hungry Red Planet as a game that taught nutrition. It was funded by the National
Institutes of Health. Another pointed to Oregon Trail as a good example of stealth
learning. Another said even with government grants there were requirements to meet state
standards. They gave the example of the Quest Atlantis game for science learning funded by
the NSF.
Someone
pointed out that this is always a problem. Software needs to guarantee that something is
learned. One is hampered and cant make strong claims. Another pointed to how the
Logo programming language for children could make strong claims prior to being
commercialized.
Someone
suggested that software be developed that meets standards and
sneaks in creativity and open-endedness.
Age
of Empires was given as an example of a title that puts entertainment first but is really
quite educational. But whenever there was a conflict between game play and historical
accuracy then history was sacrificed. Another pointed out that disclaimers can be used to
list the inaccuracies and the software can still be used in a school setting. They gave
the Magic School Bus TV show as an example of this.
Another
said that self-leveling software was new and amazing. It was very important in some Dr.
Seuss software. Another wanted games based upon Howard Gardners seven ways of
knowing.
Another
said there needs to be more software for kids with disabilities. Someone responded that
East 3 gives children attention training using brainwave monitoring. The games
neuro-feedback works better than Ritalin. Even though the technology was really working
the funding dried up for this.
People
gave Parappa the Rapper and Dance Dance Revolution as games that were not meant or
designed for children but even little kids like them. Someone said that kids need to be
challenged and games can have versions for older children.
Another
said that Carmen San Diego gets at the nugget of what is fun about geography. The same
could be done for chemistry. This lead to a debate about whether a chemistry game could be
fun. Some argued that some subjects lend themselves better to fun. Someone said that games
should strive to capture the mystery that drives real scientists to do
science. Another said the Logo programming language is like that.
Someone
thought that the Tonka building game that included a special toy that fit over the
keyboard was a good example of titles that include software and new technology. Another
said that incorporating voice recognition software leads to more interaction.
Another
said that simulation games in general were age independent and were examples of stealth
learning. A player can get an intuitive
understanding of complex things e.g. the cause of wars. Someone claimed that it is
clear goals that makes a game fun. Another responded that the key is that it is OK to make
mistakes and those mistakes have clear consequences in the game. Another said that the
goal in Carmen San Diego is to catch her but the fun is learning geography. Someone else
said that strict feedback is what is needed.
Chocolate
covered broccoli was brought up as an objection to stealth learning. Kids can see through
things and see what is really there.
Another
said that it was important for kids to be able to set their own goals and gave the Age of
Empires as an example. They said it was hard to design this kind of game.
Another pointed out that Purple Moons games were based upon richer story and characters than most games.
Someone
started saying that titles for young children have a conflict between academic content and
gaming. Another said that Age of Empires is
too bent up meaning that its historical inaccuracies conflict with academic
content.
Someone
said that licensed characters are necessary to market software for children. Parents buy
brand names. For older kids there are peers and the web but the market for younger
children is driven by brands e.g. Disney, Barbie, Lego.
Someone
said titles once had generous budgets of around a million dollars resulting in deep rich
products. But then it was discovered that titles based upon licenses with one quarter of
the development budget sold better. Another said it has gotten even worse since then.
Someone
said the goal should be to be appealing enough as a game and have educational content. He
went on to describe how Sid Meiers Pirates was such a game during his childhood. It
inspired him to learn all he could about pirates.
Another
picked up on this and said there is a
contrast between software that has the veneer of education and those involved
in real learning. The titles with a veneer dont inspire children to learn more.
Someone
said that Barbie Fashion Designer software was a huge hit not just because it has a Barbie
license many earlier failures had a Barbie license. It was such a hit because it
encouraged the child to be creative and innovative.
Another
said that most titles focus on a particular topic. None (or nearly none) instead focus on
relationships on friendship, honesty, kindness and the like. Some are working on
such, e.g. Veggie Tales where there is a clear lesson with each title. They provide good
behavior models. Another pointed out that titles that are values based teach something
everyone needs to know. Parents enjoy experiencing such titles together with their
children. Another mentioned how Will Wright during the conference spoke of how he was very
mean to the inhabitants of Black and White and then felt guilty about it for the rest of
the day. Another pointed out that in the Kings Quest games one got more points and a
better ending for finding non-violent solutions to problems.
Someone
raised the question of whether software designers should care more about serendipity and
unexpected outcomes than the clear outcomes that they currently focus on. Another pointed
out that in the virtual reality software they were working on it was not results-oriented
but the children were free to explore rich worlds without being told where to go. The
focus is on simulation of place and not on story. And it can fit into states
educational framework standards.
Someone
said it was unfortunate that everyone tries to follow rules that wont make the
software better but will help it sell.
Another
said that assessment functionality is being added to titles like the Logical Journey of
the Zoombinis. And this makes no sense it is like adding assessment to chess.
Someone
told how Orly's Draw A Story was a great creativity title that failed because the main
character has a Jamaican accent. Its publisher was afraid of encountering the controversy
around Ebonics. Someone said it is difficult to solve the problem of market constraints
despite the fantastic potential of the technology. Designers are forced to focus first on
the market and then innovation and good design.
Another
asked if research and development funding could be used to solve the problem. The fact
that Lucas Learning was well-funded and developed quality titles and had the Star Wars
license but still failed was mentioned as a possible counter example. Someone else said
that the Connect system was spun out of BBN R&D.
Someone
pointed out that school curriculum itself has not been so successful. So we dont
need to follow the curriculum but should lead. Schools will follow if something really
works. The key is motivation and learning.
Another
asked if charitable organizations and non-profit software might provide a solution. The
model of open source software could be used for software for kids. Squeak was mentioned as
an example of this. Another said there was a conflict when corporations sponsor such
things since openness conflicts with their interests.
On
the topic of how much the situation differed outside of the USA, someone said that in
France there was lots of home-grown software products. Another said that in Russia
software used to be very academic and fit well with the style of the schools. Very basis
question and answer type software was common.
Someone
asked what to kids want and proposed the answer is hand-held devices. 90% of their time
they are using Game Boys or the like. Another asked if this what the kids want or are they
being bumped off the household computer since parents and older siblings want to browse
the web.
Someone
said that schools cant deal with PCs and all the issues of installation,
reliability, security, and maintenance. He
asked why cant schools use consoles instead? Others said that the manufacturers of
the new consoles dont want titles for young kids (the console might become less
cool). PlayStation One is an option but there is the price point issue. Titles must sell for $19.95 and it is hard to do
economically.
Someone
pointed out that the PlayStation Sesame Street titles were not done well. Another said it
was because there was no money left for development because it is so costly.
Another
pointed out the problem of the reputation of consoles. Surveys show many parents see
consoles as evil and dont want them in their own. They dont seem
to understand that software rules.
Another
solution someone proposed was software on demand over the Internet. This avoids the
installation issues but does require broadband. Another pointed to the advantages of
formats such as Flash and Java for distributing software on the web.
Someone
said we should hide content inside of fun games. He claimed this isnt chocolate
broccoli since both the content and the coating taste good.
Moderated
by Ken Kahn (KenKahn@ToonTalk.com)
1.
What have been the significant advances in
software for children?
·
What software from the
past can we learn from? (KidPix, LOGO, Carmen San Diego, Super Mario Brothers, How the
West was Won, Living Books, and what else?)
2.
What is the current state of the art in the
design of children's software?
·
Are there new ideas or
only better technology?
3.
What will children's software be like in the
near and far future?
·
Speech input and output
·
Camera input and gesture
recognition
·
Virtual reality
·
Intelligent
tutors, guides, and coaches
·
New kinds of software?
4.
Will new hardware change the nature of
software for children?
·
Mixed physical and
virtual (What went wrong with Zowie and Microsoft Barney?)
·
Robotics (e.g. LEGO
Mindstorms)
·
Intelligent toys (as
input/output devices or as stand-alone applications)
5.
Should software be designed specifically for
children or should we strive for software that appeals to both children and adults?
·
Movies like Snow White,
Wizard of Oz, and Star Wars have very broad appeal. How about music? Is Disneyland
designed just for kids?
6. If we do design software specifically for children should we specialize the software for narrow age ranges or a single gender or both?
7. Where does learning fit into the picture? Is software labeled as education more educational than software that isnt?
8. Where do the constraints of the retail channel fit into the picture?
9. Finally, where does software made by children fit into the big picture?
· Stagecast Creator (www.stagecast.com)
· ToonTalk (www.toontalk.com)
· LEGO Mindstorms RCX (www.mindstorms.com)
· LOGO (el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/logo-foundation)
· Playground Project (www.ioe.ac.uk/playground)
· Squeak (www.squeakland.org)
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